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#1 Shadow_Matrix

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 09:08 AM

Been meaning to start this thread for a while lol. Here, noobies can ask any questions or address any confusion they have. Bitcoin can become very complex, very quickly the deeper you get into it, so feel free to ask any questions on the technical aspects of bitcoin, the social aspects, political etc etc I'm sure along with myself there are other people here who can help out. Other than that, discussing market trends atm is welcome haha.

The last few months have been interesting, the market trend has been declining, whereas merchant adoption has been inclining, looks like most merchants are converting their bitcoin sales->fiat which is part of the reason for the downtrend. It'll be interesting to see what happens as adoption among merchants becomes greater where they start buying and selling stock using bitcoin between one another, this would save time + fees for a lot of them. We've been testing the $460s (USD) for a while now, it'll be interesting to see which direction we actually break, even more interesting will be the block halving that will come up at around 2016, I think that will have a big impact.

I think for the moment for traders, hodling is the best option as we are just going up and down $20 continuously, so not really a point in trading these days.

Anyone here get into bitcoin pre-$1000 boom?

Edited by Shadow_Matrix, 17 September 2014 - 09:09 AM.


#2 Cootha

  • Joined:11-June 14
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Posted 17 September 2014 - 01:18 PM

I'm just getting started in bitcoin, I've got my online wallet set up and current downloading my off-line wallet so i can transfer my bitcoins into that. Did you get into it for trade or investment reasons?

#3 Shadow_Matrix

  • Joined:31-May 13
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Posted 17 September 2014 - 10:48 PM

Holy shit, big dump a couple of minutes ago on both bitstamp and finex, testing $450 USD atm.

@Cootha
At the very very very start, for investment. But when I read more about it, I became a firm believer in the technology, so much so that I barely use the bank anymore. Like for petrol etc, I still use fiat, but pretty much everything else, I use bitcoin or at least try to. My savings are held in bitcoin as well. I only use banks to receive my pay from work + paying for petrol etc. And as I am typing this, looks like we are giong to dip below $450 USD tonight (yay, more ocins to buy ;) ) Out of interest, what got you into bitcoin?

But yeah, I day trade as well when the conditions are good, I'm in a position of bitcoin ownership where even if it goes $10 into the green, I imo make some very decent money. So when it goes up $100, I make some very respectable cash. But I'm not in it for that, I truly believe in the technology and can't wait until it becomes more widely adopted. Dell has adopted it in America, paypal is integrating it, it has reached google wallet as well now, so it is all happening ;)

If you need any advice about setting up cold storage, feel free to PM me or ask questions here so everyone can benefit. In terms of logistics, I usually keep $100 or so in my "hot" wallet to pay for random shit like coffee etc and keep the rest in my cold storage wallet, much like you would keep maybe $50 in your wallet and the rest in your bank account. With the cold storage account, unless you're holding a shit tonne of bitcoin, don't get too paranoid, practise safe security protocols and you'll be fine, don't over complicate it ;)

Looks like I'll be buying some more bitcoin as this plays out through to tomorrow haha.

edit: more dumping continuing on stamp, looks like we'll be below $450 within the next half an hour!

Edited by Shadow_Matrix, 17 September 2014 - 10:50 PM.


#4 Cootha

  • Joined:11-June 14
  • Location:Australia QLD
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Posted 18 September 2014 - 11:12 AM

I got into it primarily to use the darknet markets and money transfer but also things like this interest me a lot. Since you have so much of your money invested are you ever worried the system could crash as such making your savings worthless? I also like the idea of keeping money in other forms to besides dollars such as precious metals since funds in these form are sill viable for trade in the event of economic collapse/depression. In my city there is a bitcoin vending machine and I went to use it for the first time yesterday but it was out of coins, its coin jar based and has quite large fees but it is pretty convenient.

#5 Shadow_Matrix

  • Joined:31-May 13
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Posted 18 September 2014 - 05:27 PM

View PostCootha, on 18 September 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

I got into it primarily to use the darknet markets and money transfer but also things like this interest me a lot. Since you have so much of your money invested are you ever worried the system could crash as such making your savings worthless? I also like the idea of keeping money in other forms to besides dollars such as precious metals since funds in these form are sill viable for trade in the event of economic collapse/depression. In my city there is a bitcoin vending machine and I went to use it for the first time yesterday but it was out of coins, its coin jar based and has quite large fees but it is pretty convenient.
So drugs, eh? ;)

Ummm no, I am not worried. I have read a lot about the technology and it helps that I have studied cryptography and computer security, so I am a firm believer in the technology. In terms of the technical foundations, they are much more trustworthy as they are based on cryptographic trust rather than entity trust that you have in common day transactions and with banks etc. I also believe that it is the future of currency, it is revolutionary in the way that it uses trust to make transactions, I firmly believe that cryptographic currencies are the future for the way humans store and transfer value.

I find that it is usually the people that are non-IT people AND who haven't read too much are the ones that worry about the system "crashing". The fact is that millions upon millions of people support bitcoin now, including entities such as Google, Paypal, Dell and a lot more, so it would take a serious failure for bitcoin as an economic model to "crash". So yeah, that's why I'm not that worried about that aspect of it.

#6 Cootha

  • Joined:11-June 14
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Posted 18 September 2014 - 07:12 PM

Haha not for that reason, I know its pretty safe but at this point I don't personally trust it enough for storing large amounts of money, if you had a house fire or someone steal your cold storage drive you could potentially lose it all. I know it every unlikely but still possible. Its also possible that another system is developed and overtakes bitcoin potentially driving the price of coins down greatly. Just my opinion on bitcoins as it currently stands.

#7 Shadow_Matrix

  • Joined:31-May 13
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Posted 18 September 2014 - 08:12 PM

View PostCootha, on 18 September 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

Haha not for that reason, I know its pretty safe but at this point I don't personally trust it enough for storing large amounts of money, if you had a house fire or someone steal your cold storage drive you could potentially lose it all. I know it every unlikely but still possible. Its also possible that another system is developed and overtakes bitcoin potentially driving the price of coins down greatly. Just my opinion on bitcoins as it currently stands.
A usb these days costs <$10, just have multiple usbs with a backup of your wallet file, keep some offsite away from your house. Even if someone somehow finds it, the wallet file is still encrypted and inaccessible without your private key. Similarly, if someone steals your cold storage drive, they can't do shit without the private key. As far as another system that overtakes bitcoin, no other system could garner the amount of support bitcoin has. Bitcoin has paid devs working on it, the code is open source and there is a community that is literally in the tens of millions, it is much too far past its infancy to be overtaken. Another point is that bitcoin is a proven system, any new system that comes onto the market:
a) won't have a proven track record
B) unless it is absolutely revolutionary, there will be no point in using it
c) because bitcoin has been open source, its code has been critiqued extensively over the last 5 years, there simply has just been too many resources divulged into bitcoin through the contributions of millions around the world. It is something that is unparalleled and cannot be repeated. Only the right political and economic milieu can let that happen and that's a luxury that bitcoin had and a reason it has flourished.

The only way I could ever see bitcoin to not reach mainstream adoption is if all government around the world banned it. It is a very genuine fear of mine, but I do think that in that case that there are far too many millions of peopl;e invested in it, companies like google too, that there would be mass protesting around the world and could quite seriously trigger the collapse of the current and imo archaic economic system we have now. In an ideal world, bitcoin would continue to steadily grow as it is, with companies like google etc accepting it and bitcoin growing side by side with fiat adoption and eventually out-growing fiat in adoption and trust, but I think that in the next couple of years, some serious shit will be going down with banks and governments trying to suppress it.

The bank of England recently did a whole research paper on it and released it, I haven't read it fully yet, save for some excerpts, but at one point in the paper, the BoE did mention that it could supersede the current banking system. I think atm, a lot of banks and government entities are keeping a close eye on bitcoin, but aren't yet to decide on what to do about it. It is interesting though that our own government is quite fast in the upkeep with bitcoin with the ATO releasing taxation related information on it.

I think for the moment, I am pretty happy with my bitcoin wealth and am going to start spending some of my money on more cars and stuff haha. You can never have too many cars ;) But yeah, interesting future lies ahead of us ;)

I think as you mentioned earlier, for investment purposes, diversifying your investment portfolio is a wise thing to do. But I'm not much of an investor, nor am I really that interested in investing haha. Maybe in the future I will dip more into stocks and stuff, my boss is heavily into stocks haha, said his whole house was entirely paid off by his stock profits, but yeah, for now, I'm happy where I'm at :)

Edited by Shadow_Matrix, 18 September 2014 - 08:16 PM.


#8 Shadow_Matrix

  • Joined:31-May 13
  • Location:Australia ACT
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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:51 PM

We have broken $440 USD on stamp, I advise to let it play out, the Americans will be awake soon, then move in for the buy maybe later tomorrow. Let's see what happens *gets out popcorn*

For new comers, you can see prices here:
http://bitcoinity.or...ts/bitstamp/USD

Edited by Shadow_Matrix, 18 September 2014 - 09:51 PM.


#9 Cootha

  • Joined:11-June 14
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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:54 PM

You make some good points.
Where do you buy yours coins from?

#10 Shadow_Matrix

  • Joined:31-May 13
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Posted 18 September 2014 - 10:28 PM

View PostCootha, on 18 September 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

You make some good points.
Where do you buy yours coins from?
Used to buy them from a friend who has literally millions in bitcoin and would give me good prices. Unfortunately, I have temporarily lost contact with him (we used to talk on an encrypted server and I lost the address to that server lol and he doesn't have a mobile or e-mail), so I started using coinjar. Coinjar is decent, but pretty shit service, they have gotten better though. CJ's prices are quite good, but atm I prefer igot, I use that for 90% of my bitcoin purchases, but with igot, you have to be more attentive if you want a good price. You can get a better price than CJ, but you have to constantly watch the price as igot has some weird price algorithm and their pricing is erratic, so when it randomly dips, you have to hit the buy button and you'll get a good deal. If you cbf to do that, purchase off CJ, but don't leave your coins in their online wallet, the owner of CJ is a shady dude, forgot his name, but look him up. His name is Zhou Tuong or something, forgot, lives in Melbourne.

Oh, just in case for anyone reading, never ever leave your coins in an online wallet, only trust your own security, so transfer them to an offline wallet. Don't trust any company with your coins, unless maybe in the future if Google guarantees security like banks more or less do.

Going to a computer security conference tomorrow, so I'll be in contact with my friend again, finally lol. So either use a friend or imo igot.com

For new comers, looking to make a quick buck (time scale of about two months imo if you want to make a decent buck), buy now or around this time because bitcoins are more accessible then ever and incredibly cheap. With that said, don't buy $50 worth because you are going to make shit all, if you want to make a good decent-ish buck, buy 5+ bitcoins, roughly about 2.5k fiat atm.

Edited by Shadow_Matrix, 18 September 2014 - 10:30 PM.


#11 TurbostyleR

  • Joined:12-October 03
  • Location:Australia QLD

Posted 24 September 2014 - 10:07 PM

What would be the average return on that kind of investment in the two-four month period?

#12 ShawnG

  • Joined:04-July 08
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Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:31 AM

Shadow Matrix,

What made you put your entire savings into BitCoin?
What happens if you would like to make a conventional investment or a conventional purchase?

New Car, House Loan etc?
I do not believe these are supported by Bitcoins just yet but I could be wrong?

#13 Jake26

  • Joined:05-April 11
  • Location:Australia QLD

Posted 25 September 2014 - 03:48 PM

Seems pretty interesting, I remember when people were all fixed on bitcoin mining, now it seems that the ROI is too high and everyone has abandoned the idea

#14 Shadow_Matrix

  • Joined:31-May 13
  • Location:Australia ACT
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Posted 25 September 2014 - 05:10 PM

View PostTurbostyleR, on 24 September 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

What would be the average return on that kind of investment in the two-four month period?
Obviously depends on how much money you put in. To give you an idea in the past week though, if you invested let's say $4.5k last Monday and sold last Tuesday, you would have had a return of around 10-15%~ depending on exactly when you sold. So you could have made $500 in a single day....for longer periods, it really depends, there is a lot of research and crap you can do and a lot of variables. But I wouldn't advise to get into bitcoin solely for investment purposes, unless you are prepared to research a lot because imo it isn't worth all the effort if you are putting in <$10k or so. Obviously you can make a lot of money, but imo it is a lot of effort and a lot of stress. I'm not saying don't do it, but I would advise against it, there's money to be made, but it isn't as simple as it was in the old days...

I do however think it is wise to put some decent money it it, do some reading about what the winklevoss (I think that's how you spell it) twins are planning to do. They are the twins that zuckerburg stole the facebook idea off, they are planning to more or less get wall st money into bitcoin and when that gigantic wallet opens and rains down onto bitcoin, you can bet that bitcoin will absolutely sky rocket in price. The winklevoss's recently were on a forum answering some questions about it to memory, I can link to it if anyone is interested, just have to dig around for it.

View PostShawnG, on 25 September 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

Shadow Matrix,

What made you put your entire savings into BitCoin?
What happens if you would like to make a conventional investment or a conventional purchase?

New Car, House Loan etc?
I do not believe these are supported by Bitcoins just yet but I could be wrong?
1. I believe in the technology
2. If I need to make a conventional purchase and there is no bitcoin support/acceptance, then I would liquidate some bitcoin to pay for the asset/product. However, Coinjar is doing some great work in gettnig merchants to adopt bitcoin by having a sort of bitcoin "debit" card. Very interesting work, it'll be interesting to see their final implementation.
3. I have seen some car ads with the owner happy to take bitcoin, however for a house loan, I think it will be quite a long time for lending entities such as banks to support bitcoin like that, if ever. I think in the future, conventional banks won't have a place, unless they completely revolutionise their business model which I'm willing to bet they won't want to do. As a blanket statement, bitcoin eliminates banks completely, there's no need for a bank and that's a great benefit of bitcoin, you don't need to trust or relinquish control of your wealth to an un-associated third party, like a bank. I think the only way banks will ever exist in the future is maybe if they provide security solutions for storing people's bitcoins, but I don't think that is very feasible either with cheap hardware encryption devices widely available. We are entering a unique era, where banks that have been inherent in human civilizations for more or less thousands of years are going to become obsolete. It is a very interesting paradigm that we are going to enter.

#15 Shadow_Matrix

  • Joined:31-May 13
  • Location:Australia ACT
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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:04 PM

been pretty lulz since last night. Guy has set up a sell wall at $300, trying to sell 30,000 of his coins. yes, you read that right, 30,000 lol. Equates to a bit under 10 million or so. People have been chipping at the wall so far and now there's about 15,000 coins left. Pretty interesting to watch lol. Going to buy some more coins, get dat average buy price going downwards lol. Here's a screenshot of where the wall is at atm.

http://i.imgur.com/LwcsWvd.png

#16 antonio

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 09:42 AM

Ive always found it interesting but never really bothered to do all that much about it really!

#17 Shadow_Matrix

  • Joined:31-May 13
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Posted 07 October 2014 - 05:44 PM

View Postantonio, on 07 October 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Ive always found it interesting but never really bothered to do all that much about it really!

tbh, if I didn't have an interest in computing at all and never studied or anything, I would be too lazy to bother as well lol. Like who cbf to learn all the shit haha, I for sure wouldn't! But to summarise bitcoin in like three lines:

Money is simply agreed value. Society agrees that paper notes equate to a product or service and exchange good or services like that. The drawback of that is that the paper is physical, therefore paying someone on the other side of the world is impossible. Therefore electronic means were used (bank transfers etc), the problem with that is you have to entirely trust a third party with your money and they also take a shit tonne of time to actually make the trasnfer lol. With bitcion, you can send money to the other side of the world almost instantly and without needing a third party at all.

Oops, that was four lines :P

#18 Rhino-ACT

  • Joined:23-August 10
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Posted 23 October 2014 - 05:12 PM

Don't bitcoin transfers take a couple hours usually to replicate through everywhere?

I heard that that was a limiting factor currently that would make it less likely to be adopted for everyday purchases.

Also, I wonder how it'd go if you bought a used car off someone in bitcoins and went to the RTA with your receipt saying you paid 15 bitcoins for a car haha. I wonder how they'd calculate the stamp duty on that lol.

#19 intense_7

  • Joined:20-May 04
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 29 October 2014 - 05:36 PM

The transfers happen almost instantly but the confirmations occur in roughly 10 minute intervals (or longer if you don't include a fee with the transfer). It's actaully pretty safe to accept 0 confirmation transactions as the amount of effort and work required in attempting a double spend is quite difficult and not worth it for small simple purchases. Bigger purchases require confirmation before they're accepted but it's usually up to the discretion of the merchant.

#20 Rhino-ACT

  • Joined:23-August 10
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Posted 30 October 2014 - 11:08 AM

Will that speed slow down significantly if the traffic was 10 times larger? And would it slow down as the sheer volume of total transactions becomes massive?

#21 intense_7

  • Joined:20-May 04
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 31 October 2014 - 04:08 AM

The mining dificulty scales so that the entire network solves a block roughly every 10 minutes, so no matter how much hardware you throw at it, in time you'll be back to 10 minute blocks/confirmations.

At the moment the developers are figuring out a method to handle higher transaction volume, the easiest method is to increase the blocksize. I think the real solution will be off chain transactions. Companies will form agreements between themselves to keep track of transactions internally and then group transactions together to settle them in larger groups at set time intervals. This way those companies can accept 0 confirmation transactions and the blocksize doesn't have to grow to suit traffic increases, of course this solution is a long way off and a lot of trust will need to be built to get to this level between the companies.

#22 Shadow_Matrix

  • Joined:31-May 13
  • Location:Australia ACT
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Posted 31 October 2014 - 07:17 PM

mmm intense_7 offers good explanations to your questions

View PostRhino-ACT, on 23 October 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

Don't bitcoin transfers take a couple hours usually to replicate through everywhere?

I heard that that was a limiting factor currently that would make it less likely to be adopted for everyday purchases.

Also, I wonder how it'd go if you bought a used car off someone in bitcoins and went to the RTA with your receipt saying you paid 15 bitcoins for a car haha. I wonder how they'd calculate the stamp duty on that lol.
lol I will test that scenario with the next beater I buy ;)

#23 Skepticism

  • Joined:27-November 12
  • Location:Australia NSW
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Posted 01 December 2014 - 02:38 PM

I was going to buy 500 or so way back in the day when they were $2, but the whole thing seemed a bit sketchy so I backed out :puke:

It still seems ultra sketchy and speculative, given that any objective value you can derive from ecurrency has very little basis in its exchange rate, but for activities like day trading it doesn't matter that much, as long as you can pick when it will go up or down.

That's why I don't really like the term 'investing', as day trading hardly falls into that category, and holding under the assumption of any sort of long-term value is completely insane

Edited by Skepticism, 01 December 2014 - 02:39 PM.






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