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Shakey Bones

Do You Consider Holden And Ford Australian?

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So I get into this discussion from time to time with fellow petrol heads and the general public alike. Is Holden and Ford Australian?

 

Well if watch V8 super cars or any form of Advertising from the manufacturers they would have you believe that they are as Australian as didgeridoos and Koalas. But the fact remain nothing could be further from the truth in my opinion.

 

You see both US brands spend millions each year trying to convince people that buying a Ford or Holden is buying Australian. Well not really. A part from both manufacturers being started by American companies (General Motors and Ford US) almost their entire range of cars is Foreign made for example - Cruze (with the exception of the hatchback), Barina, Colorado, Focus, Mondeo.

 

And before people bring up the Utes, Territory or the old Monaro they are all just modified Commodores and Falcons. Ok I might give exception to the Territory.

 

Now yes before I get flamed I know Holden existed before GM bought them back in the early 1900s. This is probably why we have Holden and not Chev or Pontiac. But the fact remains the company only made lawn mowers and farming equipment before GM bought them. It was GM that turned it into a car manufacturer.

 

Ok so both were founded by US companies, both companies remain US owned so profits head back the US and the Vast amount of the Ford and Holden range are made overseas.

 

In fact the only cars that Holden or Ford make that are Australian are the Commodore and Falcon. Well kind of, We all know that apart from the V6 Ecotech all the commodore engines are in fact American including HSV motors, not to mention their gear box and diff are American. At least the Fords are Australian made well most of the Falcon anyway.

 

Now there is one other car manufacturer that has a really similar story. Owned by a foreign company but has a Australian division, makes cars in Australia but only one and the rest of their range is made overseas, and that is Toyota. They make the Aurion here and like Holden and Ford assemble a couple of other foreign made cars in their Australian plants.

 

So do you consider Toyota Australian? True blue Aussie? Unlikely. But if are still all caught up in the fancy Holden and Ford Marketing and still believe they are Australian then you really have to consider than Toyota is Australian because they share pretty much the exact same story as Holden and Ford.

 

So in conclusion can Holden and Ford be considered Australian if -

 

- They were founded by foreign companies

- They are owned by foreign companies

- Profits therefore go overseas to their owners

- The vast amount of their range is made overseas

- Even the cars made in Australia use a lot overseas made parts

- Toyota shares the same story and you probably don't consider them Australian.

 

 

So what are your feelings? Am I dead wrong? Are Holden and Ford in fact true blue Aussie? Do you agree and am I missing something?

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The VE/F architecture was developed in port Melbourne. We then sell this architech to other regions. The same architecture underpins the camaro. Which makes the camaro Australian. Caprice is also made in china. Holden gets royalties from this. Which probably in turn goes to GM

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I say this any time some retard brags about buying 'Australian'.

Like you said, Ford is no more Australian than Toyota and Holden is only a little more Australian than Toyota.

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To me, there is no such thing as an "Australian" car any more. For it to be Australian, pretty much everything would have to be done here. It's like saying that a Lamborghini is from China because that's where the plastic clip holding the electrical wiring in the side mirror comes from.

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I think every company that caters for mostly family cars can't really be region specific because of parts being globally sourced good thing with toyota holden and ford is it does provide many australians with jobs if that's as true blue as it gets then that's ok I hope they can keep factorys here for a long time

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^I agree with above.

 

Also most of the Holden and Ford ranges available here aren't available elsewhere.

So in saying that, yes those models are Australian, regardless if parts and some assembly is off shore.

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The VE/F architecture was developed in port Melbourne. We then sell this architech to other regions. The same architecture underpins the camaro. Which makes the camaro Australian. Caprice is also made in china. Holden gets royalties from this. Which probably in turn goes to GM

 

This goes two ways. Since it's inception the Commodore has always been based off some model of Opel (except of the VE, obviously). Holden heavily modifies it though, but the point is it's some bastardised car off other platforms from other places. Buick 3800, Ecotec, LS1, and RB30 are all international designs that more than 50% of all Commodores produced (probably) have.

 

All the Falcons may have been Australian built, but up until the BA they're all pretty ugly and bulbous to me, inside and out.

 

If either of these are the best of Australian car design, I'm not really impressed. Having said that though, my VS took a 300,000km beating and was far more reliable than my S14.

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If you were to say the Commodore and Falcon are Australian than yes, i agree. Ford is obviously not a Australian company.

 

Holden, lets say its was a Australian Company that's now owned by Americans.

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Ford has always been a subsidiary of Ford America. And Holden was no longer Australian (after the family's work) they trimmed other vehicles and built cars around imported chassis.

 

So we've never truely had an Australian Car Company. Merely car companies that have built cars in Australia.

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With Ford at least, a lot of the design and R & D is done in australia, the new ranger was designed and built in australia, it is now produced in Thailand of course, but they employ designers from all over the world and bring them to australia to work on new models, so again, does this make them not australian?

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With Ford at least, a lot of the design and R & D is done in australia, the new ranger was designed and built in australia, it is now produced in Thailand of course, but they employ designers from all over the world and bring them to australia to work on new models, so again, does this make them not australian?

No. The question was if Ford was Australian. One car that's partly designed and partly built in Australia, does not make a company Australian.

Edited by pyro

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In my opinions, yes the Commodore is an Australian car running a Yank engine... The actual platform was designed here.

 

 

As for Falcon, I actually don' know how much was designed here so not going to comment.

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Barra 4.0 - does this appear anywhere other than Australia?

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Is Holden and Ford Australian?

 

No, although both their flagships use as much petrol as the indigenous folk and eventually stop working...

Edited by pmod

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Individual engines or models for the Aussie market do not make the company Australian. As others have rightly pointed out, we just have a few cars here that are for our market.

 

Imagine if Toyota didn't make the beige Camry/Avalon and we got a decent offering from Japan instead? I'm dreaming of the day Holden & Ford close their doors for good and we no longer have 'Aussie' cars & factories that rely on government handouts (funded by taxpayers) to maintain failing business models. Theoretically, we should then have an open market for decent cars to come here and there'd be no need to protect overpriced shit like Falcons & Commos with luxury taxes, low volume import taxes and other bullshit protection taxes that keep Holden & Ford offerings competetive.

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I'm not disagreeing with that, I was more just curious about the barra haha

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Theoretically, we should then have an open market for decent cars to come here and there'd be no need to protect overpriced shit like Falcons & Commos with luxury taxes, low volume import taxes and other bullshit protection taxes that keep Holden & Ford offerings competetive.

 

Was having a discussion about this with somebody the other day. Wouldn't have a problem buying a $35,000 Commodore if it was actually a car that was worth $35,000.

 

From what I've been reading from other people, Korean manufacturers have really gotten their shit together too, and the quality of their cars is surpassing just about anything from American headed companies. This is subjective though.

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From what I've been reading from other people, Korean manufacturers have really gotten their shit together too, and the quality of their cars is surpassing just about anything from American headed companies. This is subjective though.

 

I said this about 6-12 months ago and everyone said I was a twat. Korean cars will have the next wave of sports cars.

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Hyundai are smashin' it. There's no reason to buy a 90k merc van when you can get 3 iloads =\ and its not like you'd be buying 3 inferior vans, either.

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Hyundai are shaping up to be a pretty decent brand.

 

The Hyundai Veloster Turbo is a serious competitor to the 86, so long as RWD is not important to you.

 

The Hyundai Genesis will kick ass so long as it gets to Australia (not holding my breath).

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is it wrong to hate hyundai because of what it used to be, a cheap brand that seemed to be marketed towards young women who didnt know better so there stuck with a car that keeps breaking? but in saying that ive talked to some old blokes who said when toyota were first in australia it was a similar story so i guess its just progression of a product, walking past some newer hatchbacks they sorta look alright

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The commodore and falcon lines are being dropped in the next 4-5 years anyway, so there won't be a lot left to talk about when it comes to Australiana by then.

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there will always be a market for the straya lovers out there theyll always have something for them

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Is Holden and Ford Australian?

 

No, although both their flagships use as much petrol as the indigenous folk and eventually stop working...

That. Is. f**king. Brilliant!

 

Individual engines or models for the Aussie market do not make the company Australian. As others have rightly pointed out, we just have a few cars here that are for our market.

 

Imagine if Toyota didn't make the beige Camry/Avalon and we got a decent offering from Japan instead? I'm dreaming of the day Holden & Ford close their doors for good and we no longer have 'Aussie' cars & factories that rely on government handouts (funded by taxpayers) to maintain failing business models. Theoretically, we should then have an open market for decent cars to come here and there'd be no need to protect overpriced shit like Falcons & Commos with luxury taxes, low volume import taxes and other bullshit protection taxes that keep Holden & Ford offerings competetive.

+999999999999999

 

is it wrong to hate hyundai because of what it used to be, a cheap brand that seemed to be marketed towards young women who didnt know better so there stuck with a car that keeps breaking? but in saying that ive talked to some old blokes who said when toyota were first in australia it was a similar story so i guess its just progression of a product, walking past some newer hatchbacks they sorta look alright

kind of. Ultimately you're making the decision to buy the car, but saying that you're not buying their cars because of how they were in the past, is the same as saying that you're not encouraging them because they're doing better now...

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Whatever comes next will be smaller engine capacity and chassis aswell as more than likely not designed here or even just beef up the production of an existing model... So not really.

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is it wrong to hate hyundai because of what it used to be, a cheap brand that seemed to be marketed towards young women who didnt know better so there stuck with a car that keeps breaking?

 

No- it's a perfect marketing move, quantity over quality to get the name out.. then build on that..

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is it wrong to hate hyundai because of what it used to be, a cheap brand that seemed to be marketed towards young women who didnt know better so there stuck with a car that keeps breaking? but in saying that ive talked to some old blokes who said when toyota were first in australia it was a similar story so i guess its just progression of a product, walking past some newer hatchbacks they sorta look alright

 

Your loss dude, you are only discounting an option that could work out better for you.

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The 'Alloytec' is made at Fishermans bend along with a few other GM motors.

 

And the opening post is incorrect. The Cruze Hatch is the one made overseas. The sedan is made locally

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by the logic in the original post ford and gm are not an american brand lol

the new ford ranger is built in thailand and south africa

designed mostly in australia with help from england and the usa

using parts sourced mostly from china, mexico, india etc etc

 

with profits heading back to the USA eventually into the shareholders pocket

 

so which country 'owns' that car?

 

Ford at least uses an australian built and designed engine, in an australian built and designed chassis. Over 50% of falcon parts are built in Aus whilst the commodore is below 50% last i checked.

 

at the end of the day though these cars are obsolete as the sales figures show. people have moved on from the family car and into big toorak tractors.

it is a pity as whilst not my cup of tea the performance models from both manufacturers are awesome cars for very little money

 

the new fpv 5.0 makes 400kw atw with just a tune nothing more.... and the falcon nameplate is the longest running nameplate in the world.

 

fact is everything is owned by someone else now. shit Nissan is owned by renault! does that make Nissan a french company?

Edited by skedy

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by the logic in the original post ford and gm are not an american brand lol

the new ford ranger is built in thailand and south africa

designed mostly in australia with help from england and the usa

using parts sourced mostly from china, mexico, india etc etc

 

with profits heading back to the USA eventually into the shareholders pocket

 

so which country 'owns' that car?

 

Ford at least uses an australian built and designed engine, in an australian built and designed chassis. Over 50% of falcon parts are built in Aus whilst the commodore is below 50% last i checked.

 

at the end of the day though these cars are obsolete as the sales figures show. people have moved on from the family car and into big toorak tractors.

it is a pity as whilst not my cup of tea the performance models from both manufacturers are awesome cars for very little money

 

the new fpv 5.0 makes 400kw atw with just a tune nothing more.... and the falcon nameplate is the longest running nameplate in the world.

 

fact is everything is owned by someone else now. shit Nissan is owned by renault! does that make Nissan a french company?

 

doubtful, did a flash tune on one the other day and it made 315kw

and to answer the question earlier, the barra 4.0 is aus only

Also a bit aside from the original point, but as a plus to the aussies, when the americans from ford drove the falcon, they were impressed enough to consider using the australian developed platform for the new mustang!

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